Group Homes/Halls/Mansions/Castles etc.

It's come up a bunch of times so far and I figured it would be a good idea to have a nice aggregate thread where we can discuss the specifics of what we'd like a future group space implementation to look like!

I was inspired by this thread: as the idea came up there for like the five hundredth time ;)

I have a bunch of ideas myself of course, so I'll present those first and then I hope all of you Eleven folks will have your own ideas and tweaks for my ideas and etc!

I imagine the group space implementation as a rather monumental undertaking. It would behave a lot like a network of homes, but with a much freer sense of imagination. Once you start out as a group and you have at least 3/5/7/11/13 (Whatever number people thing is appropriate but of course it has to be prime ; )) members and have been a group for at least 3/5/7/11/13 days (Again what people think makes sense.)

Then one of the members can apply in a bureaucratic hall for a joint-ownership-land-grant-permit-form. Which you can take to another hall to receive a joint-ownership-land-grant-permit. Which can be used at a third hall to transport the holder to their new place. From that moment any member of the group can type /grouphome or some such and head to the location.

You'd start with a tiny parcel of land like your home street except completely bare. Then you'd be able to expend imagination to make your parcel of land larger or spend resources and imagination to begin building your home. The way I imagine it you'd only be able to build one building (It's called a group home/hall/mansion/castle not a group village after all) but it could be much larger on the inside than the outside. Unlike homes and homestreets I imagine group homes to be more like jethimadh tower. It's one structure that you enter from one entrance but it has multiple 'streets' inside. I imagine each 'street' would be smaller than our homes, but all of the 'streets' together would be significantly larger.

When you construct the initial form of the group structure it would have only one 'street' inside. Then you'd be able to offer up a ton of iMG and materials to add another 'street'.

I imagine the outside of the home would function the same way. Initially you'd have that tiny parcel of land but not only could you expand that much larger (but smaller than our home streets I imagine) you could add streetsigns anywhere on the strip allowing you to access new parcels of land. These new streets wouldn't be able to have more buildings built on but they could be customized to have resources for the group and piggies and chickens and butterflies. Not to mention they'd provide an incredible creative outlet as each 'street' could have a different background/theme.

That's most of what I've got! What do people think?


  • edited February 2015
    These group / community towers / etc. would be all throughout Ur in different locations? Or something seperate, like Homestreets? I really like what you've thought of; if these are all over Ur, then it'd be like the best of both (old and new). Old in that maybe each location has its own styles on the outside and are located around Ur, but around it and inside, it'd be somewhat like in Homestreets. That's if I understood correctly. *:)
  • I think it'd be awesome if they were in Ur in different locations! I think that'd be really tough to implement logistically but I think it would be really sweet! I was imagining them as another separate dimension like the homestreets, but I'd really rather they be in Ur! I just think that might be hard!

    I think if that were possible then that'd be really cool, because groups would have to decide where they wanted to locate their hall based on what sort of aesthetic they all like!

    Another idea I was kicking around is that some partial access to the level editing tools would be awesome as a creative outlet! Right now custom areas (homestreets, homes, and towers) are all very bland. They're different from each other but each one has the same elevation throughout, In addition there aren't really any platforms except with certain backgrounds etc.

    So it'd be nice if groups could pay imagination, dirt blocks, bricks etc to add platforms, build up the elevation of a certain part of a street, or even create an underground portion!
  • edited February 2015
    Liza Throttlebottom So it'd be nice if groups could pay imagination, dirt blocks, bricks etc to add platforms, build up the elevation of a certain part of a street, or even create an underground portion!

    Imma make an underground Base
  • The underground portion would serve as a place for storage space? /grouphome/underground
  • edited February 2015
    I like the idea of level editing as well, but apart from that what if a new region entirely, could be like a blank canvas, controlled by the players; having the ability to create / re-create / change the look of streets via a street editing tool, so that it's always new. Just imagining. *:)
  • Ooooh @Smallchalet I think that's a really interesting idea! It'd need some limiting factors I think so that it doesn't turn into a confused cluster$%#$ with a million floating platforms on every street because of one determined individual, but it sounds like it would be awesome!
  • Im thinking itd work the easiest if they were set up like home streets, the thing with home streets is if no one is on the street it isnt there(active). If things were directly in Ur i see housing issues being likely again
  • edited February 2015
    And.....posting all the links for these type ideas sec

    I know i remeber more than this... :/
  • What if ... There were locations around Ur that were like Jethimadh Tower, perhaps less imposing but they would basically like a facade that you would link your GoL (group owned location) to. The actual location would behave more like homestreets, except that to access you must use the facade.
    Maybe here could be something like an (instanced?) lobby and elevator with a directory for the groups you belong to with a GoL there, if here are more than one.
    This would keep the menus (and data) generated to a minimum.

    Liza, I'm not sure I'm understanding the reason for wanting a whole bunch of linked yards, like sausages on a string. Why not put the resource nodes in the backyard of the house? And why not have the portal take you right inside the front door.

    I've been playing around with the idea of upgrading this kind of location, like a temple, I think, where expanding it should be more exciting than expandin your house. I love the idea of having some design control of via a level editor or something like that.
    I was also thinking, what if they were designed like the old housing, so as you expanded you would get a new or bigger floor plan, and you would also have to work collectively for furniture and decorations only available for that model. It would be like starting with say, the littlest of house and gradually upgrading to the biggest. But I'm imagining the biggest being, like, pretty huge. It would be really cool if the expansions were modular to a degree, so you could choose whether to add the balcony or the second room downstairs and out back deciding to add more space for resource nodes or another platform for the backyard.
  • edited February 2015
    Actually id be more for no resources for group homes, simply a group house on a short street, you need to enter it (small front yard) and a lobby type idea would work. There are enough resources in game i dont see the need for group homes to have it. Plus ppl dont have access unless part of a group, so possible balance issues. Group homes would be more like a permanent party space for a group, but set up more like a tower, members donate materials/ img etc to add on to it.
  • edited February 2015
    Hmm, I guess there are a lot of different ideas for what GOL's should be.

    @"Scarlett Bearsdale" My idea regarding the sausage linking of streets in GOLs was that group members would be able to design their own streets. This would allow a GOL to truly reflect the idea of locations being imagined by glitchen. The areas within the GOL would have contrasting styles and designs. One 'street' in the GOL might be a small spice farm (I imagine a fully expanded street to be able to hold 7 trees half as much as a home street) with a bog theme and an underground section for mining. While another street might be a mountain themed bubble grove with lots of floating platforms and variable elevation.

    The idea behind that would just be to allow vastly different styles to exist in one GOL. If people think that is too powerful though, I'd be fine with other implementations of GOLs I just think they should offer a TON of creative outlet because the tools are definitely there somewhere!

    Also I wouldn't suggest putting resources in the backyard of the home, because I imagined the inside as being multifaceted as well. I'd prefer to have multiple smaller rooms connected by loading screens as Jethimadh is. I really like this portion of your thoughts too though:

    "I was also thinking, what if they were designed like the old housing, so as you expanded you would get a new or bigger floor plan, and you would also have to work collectively for furniture and decorations only available for that model. It would be like starting with say, the littlest of house and gradually upgrading to the biggest. But I'm imagining the biggest being, like, pretty huge. It would be really cool if the expansions were modular to a degree, so you could choose whether to add the balcony or the second room downstairs and out back deciding to add more space for resource nodes or another platform for the backyard."

    @"Lyrical Dejavu" I just can't help but disagree : ) I find resources and their distribution to be one of the most compelling parts of Glitch. And I don't think there will be any balance issues with GOL having tons of resources if they were implemented that way. There are already homestreets and SRS routes which already make resource gathering basically perfect. It couldn't actually possibly be any more efficient unless there was an infinite street with a thousand of one kind of resource on it. And GOL streets would be smaller in my imagination of them so they wouldn't be efficient places to farm resources compared to home streets.

    I just see resources as also being part of the aesthetics of designing your own space. An empty street designed a particular way vs. a street full of spice trees but designed the same way is significant.
  • Not that this will have any bearing on the future, but when we beta tested group homes, someone had to claim a sign post in Ur. It was less intrusive than an edifice on a street, but also less visually appealing. Only people who belonged to that group could enter the group street, though anyone could see the sign even if they weren't part of the group. Then the rest of it was more like our home streets now, where people in the group contributed to the building of the home.

    I do like the idea of having to visit multiple bureaucroc halls to get multiple permits.

    I like the idea of having some minimum requirements so we don't have a ton of group halls, especially for groups that might go defunct due to lack of activity (although I'd hate to have to have a minimum number of players for those smaller groups that want a central gathering place).

    I would love to be able to access group members' streets from the group hall via a directory of some sort, since we can only have five friends on our street posts.

    I think I'm neutral on whether the group homes can have resources or not...I agree there are already plenty of outlets for resources, but at the same time, I think they might be a bit boring if just used for sharing/storing of collected resources and a meeting place. There needs to be something cool that is unique about the group homes...maybe they can have helikitty pets or something we can't have on our home streets?
  • Yes @b3achy I absolutely agree! I think GOLs need something that sets them apart from both Ur and homestreets. Perhaps that's not resources though? Lyrical mentioned that GOLs probably shouldn't have anything that's TOO special because then players who prefer to play without group affiliation or with groups who can't afford or don't want to spend resources on a GOL wouldn't be able to access those things unless they visit another Group's GOL. (Not sure if that would even be possible. Would groups be able to throw parties at their GOLs allowing non group members to join? I think that would be an important feature to have. What's the point of customizing a location you can only show off to your closest friends ; )?)

    I really can't think of anything GOLs could have that nothing else could without finding problems with my own ideas... I briefly thought GOLs could be the sole location where certain purchased items like Olive Oil and Dressing could be created/harvested. But that seems like a stretch.

    I dunno does anyone else have any ideas?
  • edited March 2015
    Group halls were an idea I caught onto as soon as I joined Glitch, though the staff scrapped it (or at least put it on the backburner). Level building is exactly the vision I had in mind. I imagined one of those brown hallways in the style of Jeth/Chakra (what was the name for the area down there? my memory is bad), from which you could create more streets, each as variable as the last. This use of imagination was also what I had in mind for home streets/houses but the level of variability there wasn't as flexible as I imagined. (Though, the snaps of more customizable houses implied that they had such in plan.)

    I imagined those Jeth hallways with doors. Of course they would be customizable for any style. Signposts, possibly, though doors (either to get to somewhere else on the same street, think old housing; or to another street/room), "portals" and such seem more... homely.

    Group halls would be a cool base and meeting place for a group. It would be like a house, but for a community. Branching off streets, doors, benefits for larger groups (as in larger contributions, more work) such as warpholes, doors to common streets, etc. You could display your favourite yeti in some display case, whatnot. I'm opposed to having resources.
  • If there were some resources, maybe it's something that you could only have in Group Locations or your Home Streets. (I know I just kicked off the "OMG, having resources on streets that aren't available in Ur will only make Ur that much more desolate" debate...which I never really agreed with, but whatever...) I was thinking since we don't have Olive trees in Ur, it would be cool if we could have them on our homestreets or at the group locations. That way if you don't want to be in a group, you can put it on your own homestead, but if you had a plan to just have herbals on your street for a resources route, then maybe there would be a group that you could join that would have them. Then you'd just need to have an Olive Press to make bottles of Olive oil and some appropriate skill.

    I always felt like Glitch tried to force socialization on us anyway with various quests and feats and such. I don't think it's such a bad thing to have things only available to groups even if people are rather anti-social (like me)...there was always some group that you could join that would probably be of interest to you, and if there wasn't, you could always form one that was for an interest area you had.

    Maybe for Group Locations, they could be like home streets, where anyone could visit a main area; but only the group could access the hall and whatever is inside/behind the hall (like our backyards). Though to keep grievers to a minimum, maybe access to the main street is only by invite of a member, and only for that RL day of the invite. Though I had to chuckle at "only sharing things with my closest friends" comment considering a few of the groups I was in had hundreds of players (if not a few thousand, don't remember the exact numbers). But it would be cool to be able to have a membership drive party, or invite those friends that were already maxed out on groups if your group did something cool in the common area.
  • edited March 2015
    Well, I'm thinking it might help if we talked about what the purposes of GoLs are, as there is no consensus yet on what we want these spaces for.

    So far, I can see, in this thread and others:

    - a permanent space for gathering socially with group members
    - a source of end game content and a sink for player wealth
    - another opportunity to build resource nodes that can be accessed by the group
    - an outlet for player creativity and shared projects
    - restore a sense of community and neighbourhood missing since the advent of homestreets
    - a new way to create one or more connections to Ur
    - a place to store and display shared resources and other wealth
    - a place to host social gatherings for non group members, possibly as part of membership enticement

    @"Liza Throttlebottom" re sausage links: ok, that makes more sense to me now. I'm not sure if I see the need for this in the same way because we all have our homestreets to design, but I can also see a large group not being satisfied with designing just one outdoor space for the location. I guess my conceptual issue is that it feels like the GoL is just a way to get access to design a bunch of homestreets - not a bad thing, I guess, but I think I want them to feel different and more their own thing.

    I also think that it would be good to have public and private areas in the GoL as for our houses, so maybe you can visit another group's location with an invite that has a TP link, but not all areas are accessible. That way your group could host a public party without taking over a street in Ur, as PBMS and other groups did from time to time. I think it would be good also as you could likely "disinvite" guests who are behaving badly and hoovering the decorations and snacks.

    I also want to address the concern that @"Lyrical Dejavu" raised that newer players, small groups, and solitaires may feel like they can't access this game content. There are certain to be groups who welcome new players and who have already established fully tricked out GoLs that new players will certainly be able to access. The GoLs may also make such groups more visible to new players than they used to be.
    There will also be private groups who have hermitages that only a few are welcome within, and the challenge of building those specs with only a few people would be a a welcome one to many players. If I'm honest, I don't have a lot of concern for the feelings of those who want something that they can have, provided they make one or two compromises to get it (put up with other people, put the effort in yourself). But this may be hard hearted of me! I apen to convincing! But right now, provided small groups can get basic GoLs without too much hardship, I think that we are probable going to be okay.
    In that way, actually, GoLs would also possibly encourage the formation of small social groups for people who aren't terribly social otherwise. Most people knew one or two people they'd talk to if online together, and this way they'd get a chat and a place to hang out if they made it official.
    That's why I think a limited number of resources would be fine. Since, as Liza points out, we are not hurting for ways to access resources. Glitch is almost entirely a post scarcity economy as far as basic resources go.
  • edited March 2015
    It was on a different thread, but i suggested that if you belonged to the group you would have the option at any shrine to donate a % of img. And this would translate into points for the group and those points = stuff. You would have to have a min amount of points to even have the option to purchase / get a group home. It doesnt need to be a huge amount of points but high enough to discourage ppl from making groups solely to get a group home. Also since the points are meant to also purchase things for the group house they would moreso be for medium to large groups. Having a group home with barely any ppl in the group seems rather pointless. The small groups (until they grow or get more points) would still exist , they just cant purchase/access til x amount of points. And some type of points system with a max amount % limit of img donated per game day, to go towards the points is more fair than going by buying items with currants. Which discourages large groups from dumping img or currants or whatever in the group pot and having everything overnight. Maybe certain things are accessable when you get to different point thresholds? I think Group Homes should be end game type things, something a group effort is needed for

    As for access to non group members, a invite from any member to the group house to access should be enough i would think, one each time of course. I dont think access to anyone and everyone with no invite is a good idea, each groups house should be private. A set up more like home streets is probably the best way to go. And could do a lobby type idea, with a way to ask to join groups at that location. As for using old housing styles this is possible however theres a catch, unless things are majorly reworked, old housing wasnt expandable, in order to be able to add furniture like we did with new housing, each and every house shape would need to be done individually, and without a way to place furniture creativity aspects / fun / rather sinks. However Group Homes do not need much in the lines of storage, of course make it possible but the emphasis should be on creative aspects. Its a meeting place/party place, not another house/storage area. Since they are group Homes/Club Houses i was thinking something like treehouses, but inside a tower like set up would work, but many more creative or social aspects need to be added to group homes

    I think we have enough resources. but i was saying no resources, because, much like storage, i want to discourage it or limit it at group homes. Group homes dont need to be like a house, while practical things should be possible it should be limited and put emphasis on creative or fun or social activities instead.
  • @"Lyrical,Dejavu" I can see your point about resources, but consider this: it wouldn't always be avarice that causes groups to want resources in their location .... For example, PBMS was founded by people who started out mining together cooperatively and started throwing random street parties while they mined systematically. So it wouldn't feel right if there was no way to mine sparkly around the PBMS location, so that we could do our thing and name them nicknames and mine them together if we wanted to. But at the same time, it couldn't replace mining in the real world, so I think a happy balance could be struck, perhaps with a token number of nodes available - Liza suggested 7 above, I think that would be a good ceiling.

    And as far as storage goes, something else that PBMS and other groups did was throw public parties, and some of that included weeks of planning and effort to make items, sometimes themed. A group space would need to allow us a place to drop off supplies, tally up numbers of items, post notes about what is still needed, etc. maybe not SDBs but cabinets would be a must for groups like ours. It would also need for us to have a space we could welcome the public into.

    On the other hand, not all groups have these needs. Which is why I brought up what kinds of behaviours do we want to make possible in these locations, because that will determine in part what game elements are needed, and which ones need to be invented! If we need all of those purposes, it will be tricky to balance them.

    For instance, some groups might be into making collective artworks. For this group, visitors being able to tour the location would be important, but it would also be important to give them a canvas to work on, and if it looks anything like what people were doing before, it would mean that multiple members need to be able to move furniture around the location. That would mean that the locations would need to allow furniture, and also the devs would need to work out how to add the ability for multiple group members to fiddle with the furniture. That involves not just the permissions on the game end but also adding the permission to the other administrative powers group owners can bestow on the different levels of group membership (does anyone else remember that? Man I had a laundry list of things about group administration I wanted done differently, maybe we should have a thread about that someday).
  • True it depends on the needs of the group as to what they will....well...need. I wasnt meaning that we cant have resources or storage i was meaning the majority of whats in a group house should focus on fun or creative vs. practical. Practical does have a place but i think it should be less than with houses, or that creative and fun things there should be more than with houses...either way it means the same thing rly
  • @"Lyrical Dejavu" Honestly I think I agree with that! Group homes to me are definitely more about the creative expression aspect and the fun/social implications to me. So for me the resources would be there because thats part of the creative expression of the group, they get to decide what sorts of trees/rocks/barnacles decorate their home, whether their home is a castle, a teepee, a shire cottage, a bog dwelling or an underground cave!

    I definitely think storage is a non balance issue. Storage should definitely be something that exists prominently in group locations. This allows things like communal resource areas and just generally storage that is accessible to the whole group. I'm having trouble expressing myself here, haha, but this strikes me as something that's important for groups to have at their disposal!
  • edited December 2015
    this might be a lame idea, but what if we used the old housing system for group homes ?? I know it wouldnt be chock full of resources or storage like some people might want , and I would still like to own an "old house" as my personal vacation home...... but wondering if might make a good socializing space for groups ..... hmm..
    ETA: Ok, I've been pondering this idea of old housing for group homes , as socializing space. And since the old homes, like Alakol house could not be extensively custom decorated (wall paper,paint,etc) , then they likely won't make a great choice . So , I think my idea wasn't so great. I'm leaving it , as maybe inspiration for someone else to have better ideas .

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